Fi Deehan and Gwyn John

April 30th, 2024

Becoming Tangata Tiriti

At a Leadership Lab noho in July last year, Gwyn John and I started to hatch a plan to record a podcast about Te Tiriti o Waitangi, and on the day before the next Leadership Lab noho in November, we recorded our first episode together at the PlainsFM studio in Ōtautahi Christchurch. With Gwyn living in Napier and me living in Ōtautahi, this would be the only episode we would record in-person. We knew the importance of this mahi and that this kōrero had to happen, but we had no idea how the political landscape would shift and would call even louder for us to be allies, to use our privilege as two non-Māori women and really step into the space of becoming, being, Tangata Tiriti.

Comment on LinkedIn from listener:
This kōrero, over all 6 episodes, is incredible, and if, like me, you are ready and open with a truly genuine desire to learn the true history or Aotearoa (and sit in the discomfort of it – as you say, Gwyn, no one died of discomfort), to be an ally for change and Tangata Tiriti – just listen…you may cry, you may get angry, you may feel some shame and guilt…feel it all and then decide what you will do about the ‘stories’ you’ve believed for too long and how you will share this knowledge with others. As a teenager in the 80s, I realize how much I just don’t know, was never taught. Listen, share and move forward with hope and aroha for a better Aotearoa.
Toitū te Tiriti.

Some excerpts from a listener’s email:
I want to acknowledge your insights. I have been listening with my Pakeha (with a capital P) husband.  You have both touched on key points..unspoken points that get lost in the confused and misled rhetoric surrounding us.  Thank you. You have both added to the heavy lifting required right now and you can reach an audience that I can’t. 

And another listener:
Learn the hītori yourself and don’t depend on or expect your Māori mate to teach you about…. I experienced this years back when first getting into study in class. I was only Māori at the time and I felt like I was expected to know everything and even bear the brunt of some people’s problems. I found it overwhelming and quite draining especially because I was still learning about myself being Māori. 

We are humbled by the feedback we have received and we acknowledge there is much more to say and do. Throughout the recording, we had to acknowledge multiple times that we were not giving the history, the stories, the time and depth we would have liked but we also felt like we had to start somewhere to bring more people like us into the kōrero.

And who are we? And why did we do this?
Fi Deehan, is an Irish immigrant. “Over the last few years, I’ve had my eyes opened to the reality of race relations in Aotearoa New Zealand, the colonial history, and the inequitable impacts to this day. When I started to learn, I felt sick to my stomach, I felt tricked. After 8 years here, I had no idea. I now realise that many other immigrants like me have no idea either. And that’s why I’m doing series – because I am happy to ask the naive questions, to be the learner, and to question the mainstream narratives that I now realise are extremely one-sided.”

Gwyn John, originally from Napier, grew up in the 70’s with little knowledge or understanding about colonisation or te Tiriti O Waitangi. “I am constantly amazed at how few people know about the history of this country. What so many don’t realise is that much of what we think to be true is not true. It’s super important that we have an informed conversation as a nation but first, we need to make sure we know our history and understand how we got here if we are going to be able to move toward the future we all hope for.“ Gwyn has been a part of the Pākehā/Tauiwi Te Tiriti education movement since the mid ’90s and is actively seeking to learn how to honor the treaty.

So what, what next?
We know there is so much more to be said and so many directions this series could take and we want you, our listener, to tell us what you think.  Please take a couple of minutes to complete this survey that will help inform the next stage.

Thanks to the PlainsFM team who collaborated with us on this project, our Leadership Lab colleagues and friends for supporting and encouraging and all who have listened and asked questions.

You can listen to the whole Rourou Conversations podcast on your platform of choice here. Start with episode 1 of Becoming Tangata Tiriti.

This is a Leadership Lab Rourou initiative in collaboration with PlainsFM. The Rourou project hosts spaces to listen to contemporary voices, to collaborate with others, and to address gnarly issues. Rourou amplifies marginalised voices for advocacy and to provoke system change.

You can connect with stories of impact from across our Leadership Lab ecosystem by signing up for this monthly pānui (see bottom of www.leadershiplab.co.nz), joining our Leadership Lab LinkedIn page, joining us on Facebook and browsing our website.

Thanks heaps for your interest and support.

 

Fi Deehan and Gwyn John

April 30th, 2024

Becoming Tangata Tiriti

At a Leadership Lab noho in July last year, Gwyn John and I started to hatch a plan to record a podcast about Te Tiriti o Waitangi, and on the day before the next Leadership Lab noho in November, we recorded our first episode together at the PlainsFM studio in Ōtautahi Christchurch. With Gwyn living in Napier and me living in Ōtautahi, this would be the only episode we would record in-person. We knew the importance of this mahi and that this kōrero had to happen, but we had no idea how the political landscape would shift and would call even louder for us to be allies, to use our privilege as two non-Māori women and really step into the space of becoming, being, Tangata Tiriti.

Comment on LinkedIn from listener:
This kōrero, over all 6 episodes, is incredible, and if, like me, you are ready and open with a truly genuine desire to learn the true history or Aotearoa (and sit in the discomfort of it – as you say, Gwyn, no one died of discomfort), to be an ally for change and Tangata Tiriti – just listen…you may cry, you may get angry, you may feel some shame and guilt…feel it all and then decide what you will do about the ‘stories’ you’ve believed for too long and how you will share this knowledge with others. As a teenager in the 80s, I realize how much I just don’t know, was never taught. Listen, share and move forward with hope and aroha for a better Aotearoa.
Toitū te Tiriti.

Some excerpts from a listener’s email:
I want to acknowledge your insights. I have been listening with my Pakeha (with a capital P) husband.  You have both touched on key points..unspoken points that get lost in the confused and misled rhetoric surrounding us.  Thank you. You have both added to the heavy lifting required right now and you can reach an audience that I can’t. 

And another listener:
Learn the hītori yourself and don’t depend on or expect your Māori mate to teach you about…. I experienced this years back when first getting into study in class. I was only Māori at the time and I felt like I was expected to know everything and even bear the brunt of some people’s problems. I found it overwhelming and quite draining especially because I was still learning about myself being Māori. 

We are humbled by the feedback we have received and we acknowledge there is much more to say and do. Throughout the recording, we had to acknowledge multiple times that we were not giving the history, the stories, the time and depth we would have liked but we also felt like we had to start somewhere to bring more people like us into the kōrero.

And who are we? And why did we do this?
Fi Deehan, is an Irish immigrant. “Over the last few years, I’ve had my eyes opened to the reality of race relations in Aotearoa New Zealand, the colonial history, and the inequitable impacts to this day. When I started to learn, I felt sick to my stomach, I felt tricked. After 8 years here, I had no idea. I now realise that many other immigrants like me have no idea either. And that’s why I’m doing series – because I am happy to ask the naive questions, to be the learner, and to question the mainstream narratives that I now realise are extremely one-sided.”

Gwyn John, originally from Napier, grew up in the 70’s with little knowledge or understanding about colonisation or te Tiriti O Waitangi. “I am constantly amazed at how few people know about the history of this country. What so many don’t realise is that much of what we think to be true is not true. It’s super important that we have an informed conversation as a nation but first, we need to make sure we know our history and understand how we got here if we are going to be able to move toward the future we all hope for.“ Gwyn has been a part of the Pākehā/Tauiwi Te Tiriti education movement since the mid ’90s and is actively seeking to learn how to honor the treaty.

So what, what next?
We know there is so much more to be said and so many directions this series could take and we want you, our listener, to tell us what you think.  Please take a couple of minutes to complete this survey that will help inform the next stage.

Thanks to the PlainsFM team who collaborated with us on this project, our Leadership Lab colleagues and friends for supporting and encouraging and all who have listened and asked questions.

You can listen to the whole Rourou Conversations podcast on your platform of choice here. Start with episode 1 of Becoming Tangata Tiriti.

This is a Leadership Lab Rourou initiative in collaboration with PlainsFM. The Rourou project hosts spaces to listen to contemporary voices, to collaborate with others, and to address gnarly issues. Rourou amplifies marginalised voices for advocacy and to provoke system change.

You can connect with stories of impact from across our Leadership Lab ecosystem by signing up for this monthly pānui (see bottom of www.leadershiplab.co.nz), joining our Leadership Lab LinkedIn page, joining us on Facebook and browsing our website.

Thanks heaps for your interest and support.